It's really unfortunate when the owner of a group (vegetarian_group at Yahoo Groups) believes it's ethical to selectively edit posts to her List and not tell the group or poster. Apparently, the owner also edits out discussions about how unhealthy milk and dairy are, not wishing to offend those who drink/eat the stuff. Someone wrote concerns about a recipe posted with 10 eggs, a cup of butter, and a cup of whole milk (the nutritional highlights) and got criticized. What's even worse is that expressing surprise at tese covert actions via private e-mail can get one banned without notice and explanation. IMHO, groups that are moderated by such hidden censorship should be avoided... until the moderator(s) at least let would be and existing members know the real score.
[08/20/06 Addendum: I've had a bunch of feedback on the above post. Thanks to everyone! Wonderful to know that so many people 'get it.' My general responses below.]
FEEDBACK: I've received a surprising amount of responses to my post about the Vegetarian_Group at Yahoo Groups. Many people formerly (and currently) members of that Group have asked that I not post their comments for fear of reprisal. Apparently, some of these people have been stalked on the Internet, banned without reason, their personal (and physical) information published, a group created just to ridicule them (yup... a Yahoo Group was created to attack just one person over recipes.... jeeesh...), the use of fake "guestbook" entries at other websites using real people's e-mail addresses, fake or similiar e-mail addresses of those they don't like being used to make their targets look bad, and that's just the tip of the vindictive iceberg. Their target's crimes? They appear to vary from nothing to politely questioning policy off-List to creating their own veg group seen as competition.
It's amazing. I've even seen this sorry group of people claiming that recipes posted in their group (without accreditation) are being plagiarized by members of another group (huh? are y'all for real? there are tons of recipes on vegetarian_group from other web sources without credit). Apparently, too, they are not happy that I've posted the truth, judging from some of their, well, silly and transparent antics.
Some general comments and responses to questions posed to me:
1) No, I haven't read the Vegetarian_Group's owners' flames on any List and choose deliberately not to respond to those rantings. People can judge for themselves by reading such, and I don't need to underline it for them (although admittedly, ol' Lilac's outburst, from what I've been told, over a blog post about "eating one fatty meal is bad for one's arteries" was quite dramatic...)
2) No. I don't intend to raise the issue of the excessive copyright violations regarding posting/filing of recipes without attributing their sources at Vegetarian_Group. I suggested it was not a good idea to a moderator, what he/she/ does at this point is his/her perrogative. What they do now is their business.
3) The issue wasn't dairy, per se, it was editing out any reference to the negative effects of dairy on the human body and not telling the Vegetarian_Group you're doing this. If the Group Description or Policy had said: "don't dis dairy and eggs", fine. And if you're going to do this, do it unilaterally (not singling out one person). The editing being done wasn't for brevity (as some have been told) --- that was clear by the size of other posts. It was done because the owner thinks it's okay to consume concentrated hormones and pus cells, and didn't want to offend those on the List who feel the same way. Mommy Moderator Knows Best, and she's covert helpers to make sure it's enforced.
4) Fundamentally, I think it's wrong to censor people without telling them and the community that this is being done. To ban members when they question the policy (politely) without any explanation, seems wrong. The Group Community should know about this policy, hence my blog post. The Vegetarian_Group at Yahoo Groups owner spends a lot of time plugging her "friendly group" around the 'net at various Veg-related sites and inviting subscribers, and people need to know what's going on. That she frequently brags elsewhere about how big her group is and makes fun of those with less members, isn't any indication of someone who's true intent for working her Group is anything but an ego trip.
5) There are a lot of veg'n groups/lists on the Internet. Use a Search Engine if you need to find another place to play where the rules are fair and, more importantly, open and honest. Go where the veg'n message is more important than numbers, ego, personal control, and mob-think. Spend your Internet time with those who care more about "being veg'n more than being in charge."
ENDPOINT:
If you, as a member of Vegetarian_Group now know the truth, and don't mind, hey, have fun, go at it. Let the moderators covertly decide what you can read that's safe for your, ahem, "consumption." Enjoy your Group.
So, the bottom line is: I blogged the truth about the Vegetarian_Group from Yahoo Groups. I'm no longer a member. If they change their policy, I'll be glad to blog a notification of that change wholeheartedly. As of now, they clearly reserve the right to selectively edit posts, as well as ban people questioning policies, not tell anyone anything, and none of this is mentioned in their statement of policy or description.
I'd rather not be involved any more, and I can handle some of the decidedly amusing insults I've gotten in comment posts (yup... amazing that it is... all from the same IP address who's user's name I won't publish). I simply suggest, politely, that the Vegetarian_Group members decide for themselves what's important and discuss this with the Group Owners... I'm no longer in the loop. I just posted the truth...
So... in conclusion.....
Best regards to all (and thanks again for all the great feedback and encouragement), Mark
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