Dirt Candy & Rip Esselstyn on "Protein Myth, Moderation"

I'm still amazed at vegan bloggers who focus on protein issues and/or promote excessively high added fat/oil recipes (most recently, "Chef Amanda Cohen's Veggie Power Girl's Dirt Candy Greek Salad Recipe" that clocks in at over 60 grams of FAT per serving (a whole day's worth of fat according to the Feds, 3 to 4 times what Dr. Esselstyn would recommend per day):

http://kblog.lunchboxbunch.com/2009/10/chef-amanda-cohens-veggie-girl-power.html

... Amanda's the founder of the "Dirt Candy" Restaurant.  Hell, I'd rather eat dirt candy than her "powerful" heart attack special salad.  I didn't even factor in the "8 cups of canola oil" to fry the "2 Trumpet Royal Mushrooms" in (I'm not joking, 8 cups... that's a half gallon of oil).  IMHO, she deserves recognition only as a vegan chef who's apparently oblivious to the well-documented incredible negative impact of fat and saturated fat on the human biosystem.  Is she serious?  A half-gallon of oil for frying two mushrooms?  That's insane.

Anyway, in related repose, I've been thinking about some things Rip (author of, "The Engine 2 Diet" and son of Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn) had to say in my Mad Cowboy Interview with him (posted yesterday).  Rip's a solid believer of his father's research that reversed heart disease and advocates no added fat in your vegan diet.  Of note:

On the Issue of Protein:

M:  "In your book ["Engine 2 Diet"], you also list a bunch of the myths of a plant strong diet.  What would you say is the biggest one amongst these myths?"

R:  "I'd have to say the biggest one is protein. I get asked about that at least twice a day.  I just say that if your consuming enough calories you never have to worry about getting enough protein."

On the Issue of Moderation:

R:  "With my Dad, that message is perfect.  Depending upon whom I'm speaking to, I'll hit the moderation.  I was speaking to a group of firefighters the other day, and a guy asked me: "How much red meat can I have a week?  Isn't everything in moderation fine?"  I'm like, no, you know what? The whole phrase "everything in moderation" is why we're in such dire straits right now in this country.

One of the things about "Engine 2 Diet" is that what Howard is doing, my father's doing, and McDougall, Ornish and Fuhrman are doing, is we're trying to create a whole new paradigm in health and weight loss.  To me, every other diet program out there concentrates solely on the outside of your body instead of what's inside your body.  To me, we're creating beauty from the inside out."

To further quote Rip, vegetable oil is "synthetic goo."  It's not real food.

Now keep in mind, those are the words of a Professional Vegan Firefighter and award-winning Triathlete.  His father's 20+ years of peer-reviewed research has shown how to reverse heart disease with a no-added fat vegan diet.  One of the only two documented researchers to do this (Dean Ornish is the other). 

Who are you going to trust and believe in, a nutritionally ignorant blogger and/or vegan chef, or the guys out there doing it and proving it in real life?  Heart disease is the biggest killer of people, vegan and non-vegan, male or female, in this country.  And it's not the only chronic disease associated with too much added fat in your diet.

Go vegan, and go no-added fat vegan.  Your body will be healthier, happier, and the odds are that you'll live longer.  That's real power, and it's independent of gender.

Full Interview with Rip here.  Interview with Rip's father here.

Comments

[vgpedlr]

I'm impressed that the chef was willing to dialogue, but it seems portion size has been confounded.

[I was, too, although I don't see any confoundation. One-fourth of that dressing is around 48 grams of fat per that one serving. Quibbling over the rest isn't the point. It's a very very high added fat recipe.

[Regardless, what an enourmous amount of "fat layered on fat" as David Kessler likes to say. After reading his book, I now look at other people's food and see separately the layers of sugar, salt, and fat. For instance, this morning I watched a colleague eat a "breakfast sandwich" from some coffee chain. It was FOUR separate layers of FAT and SALT. (ham, cheese, scrambled egg, butter on the bagel/muffin thing, all layers that are usually heavily salted) And yet everyone acts as if this perfectly acceptable, or at least a reasonable compromise. Or worse yet, "moderate". I hate that word, and I really like the response Rip had about it. I also love the chapter in his dad's book "Moderation Kills". We have to completely redefine the term.

[Agreed on all counts, although Kessler was a bit of a "johnny come lately" on the issue. Still, that he's out there bringing this up is still useful.

Yeah, it's REALLY tough sometimes to watch what friends and associates eat. Bad enough dairy, cheese, and meat, but when I look at labels and see the amounts of fat, saturated fat, salt, and sugar, I literally cringe.

Thanks for your feedback! Best regards, Mark]

[Amanda Cohen]

Hi Mark,

Well that's the problem with writing a recipe for home chefs based on what I do in the restaurant and I certainly need to find a way to make portions more clear. My "squeeze" for the mayo is about 1 tablespoon - although I like your idea of writing a little tic tac toe board on the salad with it! Also, I use Veganaise in the restaurant not mayo, but I changed it for this recipe because I didn't think it was a good idea to put in a brand name item.

[Regardless, it's somewhere between 10 and 12 grams of fat per tablespoon]

And the oil in the 1/4 cup of dressing is just somewhere we're going to have to disagree. I get the impression that you feel all fat is bad, whereas olive oil, which is about 80% unsaturated fat, is something I'm not too worried about. I also think that you're overestimating how much is used by about one and a half tablespoons, but then again you've never seen the dish prepared, nor have you had it served to you, so how can you be expected to know?

[The numbers are the same... it's around 48 grams of fat per serving of the dressing. That alone, is over 2/3 the daily fat recommended by the American Heart Association. I don't have to see it prepared; your description call called for 1/4 cup. You can quibble over 10-12 grams of fat, but, taking into account your description, and adding the probable 1 to 2 TBS of fat from the mushrooms per serving, you're still providing a huge excess of fat. At least a day's worth.

And oil is not a food. Added fat is not a food. I've no problem with fat in real food, which vegetable oil isn't.

The studies and measurements are clear: added fat promotes various diseases, particularly heart disease, and even one high fatty meal (such as yours) decreases the elasticity of your cardiovascular system for around 6 hours... the latter comment here was measured and is not theory.

As to the impact of fat on health:
http://soulveggie.blogs.com/my_weblog/2009/01/15-reasons-to-avoid-vegetable-oils.html ]

Like I said, I appreciate the feedback and it will certainly make me far more careful in descriptions of recipes in the future, especially ones I'm converting from restaurant use to home use.

Thanks,
Amanda

[I hope you use considerably less added oil in your recipes and promote health rather than the opposite. IMHO, too many chefs, who mean well, are not helping people by feeding their taste addictions to fat.

I do however, appreciate your motivations and respect that you were willing to comment. I mean you no ill will, but the salad, as served, illustrates a big problem with how we eat, be we vegan or not.

Again, it wasn't your description that was the issue. You said 1/4 cup dressing, etc. I went by that and never for a moment thought to add "everything together" as you said in previous comment. I broke it down into fat grams per serving, and went very conservative with 60 grams. It's probably between 70 and 80, but that isn't the point.

Best regards, Mark]

[Amanda Cohen]

Hi There,

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not sure where you get 60 grams of fat. Yes, if you drink the 8 cups of canola oil, the entire cup of mayonnaise and all the salad dressing at once I'm sure that's quite a bit of fat. But as per the recipe, you use the mayo to drizzle a bit on the top for taste, and reserve the rest for later use. Same with the dressing: you toss it to taste and reserve the rest. As for 8 cups of canola oil: that's how you deep fry. No one expects you to then turn around and drink the oil you've used for frying.

I apologize for any misunderstandings: I'm a restaurant chef, and maybe I didn't make this recipe clear enough for the home chef. Giving recipes to home chefs is something I've only just starting to get the hang of and I've already spoken to Kathleen about adding a few lines to this Greek Salad recipe in order to clarify it for those who might think that all the ingredients should be mixed up in a big glass over ice with a paper umbrella on top and guzzled in one big gulp.

But I really do appreciate your confusion. Things that seem obvious to me, may not to someone encountering this recipe for the first time and it's a good perspective I'll have to keep in mind for the future.

Best,

Amanda Cohen
Dirt Candy

[The 1/4 cup of dressing per serving is about 4 tablespoons of fat, which is roughly 48 grams of fat.

The Preserved Lemo Mayo has 16 tablespoons of Vegannaise, which means assuming say, 4 "squeezes" (two lines crossed with two lines) is 3 to 4 tablespoons of just about pure fat, and being gracious, 30 to 40 grams of fat PER SERVING.

The 8 cups of olive oil isn't the big issue and I ignored that there would probably be another 10 grams or more fat per serving from the 'shrooms. Even with out the fried mushrooms, each serving of your salad with dressing, etc., is well over 60 grams of fat.

I was being quite conservative.

Sorry if you're confused. Let me help: your recipe, regardless of frying the mushrooms, well exceeds the daily fat limit recommended by the American Heart Association. It is also 3 to 4 (probably 5) times that of the DAILY fat intake recommended by Ornish and Esselstyn.

That's not a debate, and it has nothing to do with how you wrote the recipe. The numbers don't lie. With all due respect, it's an abysmally fatty recipe that might be "fun" but certainly is far from being healthy.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

Mark]