SoulVeggie

"The Devolution of Thanksgiving" - my lecture to Olgethorpe University

"My recent lecture. The History of Thanksgiving, fasting/prayer, corporate excess, the modern turkey, the kitchen as a biohazard laboratory, a no-fat plant-based diet, veganism, metabolic syndrome (heart disease, type II diabetes, alzheimer's disease, etc.), pesticides, gmos, advice for dealing with Thanksgiving, and a host of other related issues.  Roughly a 35 minute talk, and I cut loose a bit in the subsequent 30 minute Q&A.

This slideshow accompanying the audio (the lecture was given via Skype) was a quick'n'dirty assembly of related images to the topics I was discussing.  By no means comprehensive, they seem to augment the whole experience." 

Daiya Cheese: "Expensive, Unhealthy [Vegan] Crap."

It's no secret that I abhor Daiya and all the other "self-promoted as healthy" faux cheeses.  Hell, I even wrote an appendix in my book devoted to detailing the FAT content of these nutritiously vapid and expensive taste addictive quasi-food substances (here's some of my previous posts:  1, 2, 3, Rip Esselstyn on "Daiya").  One of the reasons I wrote my book was to promote alternatives to this fatty junk food.  I spent near SIX years devising heart healthy cheese-like sauces with NO OIL.  Here's a summary of 15 Reasons to Avoid Added Oil as a refresher for those not aware of my thoughts on the matter.  BTW: some processed fake cheese products contain as much fat per serving as whole milk mozzarella.

Anyway, I've been remiss in doing my duty on this blog in responding to comments.  Publishing a book, the self-marketing, my injury, preparing for AR2013, it's been exhaustive and I regret not being able to punch it out as much as I used to (oh, and I'm supposed to be "nicer" and less critical these days...).  The following comment, verbatim (I did indent it) hit me hard emotionally and conceptually.  I've been sitting on it for awhile to when I could properly focus on what this woman wrote about "Daiya Cheese" and how her words should resonate in the vegan community.  I'll have more to say about this after her words.  Here's what she wrote, unedited (I did "bold" a few lines):

"Hi, Mark -- just wanted to chime in with my own experience with Daiya. I've been a Vegan for nearly 25 years now but over a year ago I saw Daiya in my health food store and thought I'd give it a chance. My first reaction to it was that cold out of the package it looked, smelled, and tasted like stale, sweaty shoelaces. But, what the hell, it melted great and tasted better hot, so me and my family ate it for about a year. We used it in all kinds of recipes that harkened back to our pre-Vegan days--pizza, tacos, heck just about anything that called for cheese in the recipe.  

After about six months of after eating the stuff pretty regularly, I felt ... weird. You know the old joke people would say about eating a heavily cheesed pizza? The old "Man, I can feel my arteries hardening as I eat this!" Well, it was like that. Exactly like that. It actually felt like my arteries were clogging up and shrinking with each bite I took. Silly me (by then addicted to the gooey matter), I ignored the feeling and kept right on eating the stuff. I thought, surely there can't be anything wrong with it ... it's not like it's real cheese. Six more months passed and in that time I noticed that I was getting indigestion almost every day when I rarely ever got it before. 

One day, I was surprised to step on the weighing scale and discover that I was twenty-five pounds heavier. Strangely, I didn't look it, but I was. Let me just say here that I'm in good health and exercise regularly, but one night I went to lie down in my bed and got the whopper of all chest pains--something I've never experienced in my life. I really thought I was going to die. Right away my subconscious was telling me it was the Daiya. It just had to be. There were no other changed factors in my life that could have accounted for it. 

Naturally, I cut out eating the stuff immediately, for my health and my family's health. I returned the unopened packages we had to the store. I've been off the stuff for several months now and my heart feels normal, my arteries clear. We all feel better, lighter inside. Never again will I do something as stupid as get a "so-called" health product that claims to be a substitute for a non-Vegan item. There are too many other things to eat out there without needing something that looks like cheese or whatever else. 

If me and my family had been Vegan all our lives (we wish!) we would never have encountered something like cheese in the first place, so why try to copy it? If you're Vegan, just be thankful you are because it's a health choice as well as a moral one. I think it's wrong the way this Daiya product is marketed like it's actually healthy. It's junk food, pure and simple. Nothing but saturated fat, gooey and totally unnatural. It just clogs up your insides and screws with your digestive process making you feel heavy and sluggish. Daiya, meanwhile, is laughing all the way to the bank at all the people they have suckered in with their inedible product. If you feel any of the feelings I've described at any time while eating this goop, do yourself a favor and quit the addiction. You'll live a longer and healthier life and you will save hundreds of dollars a year from not buying this very expensive, unhealthy crap. But why wait until it's too late?"

Her words touched me, and elucidated what I've felt all along.  I recently visited the Daiya website, noting that they spend more time discussing what they DO NOT have in their products than they do.  Here's what's in the Cheddar Cheese.  Recognize any Whole Foods in this description?

"Filtered Water, Tapioca Starch, Palm Fruit Oil, Expeller Pressed non GMO Canola Oil and/or Expeller Pressed non GMO Safflower Oil, Coconut Oil, Pea Protein Isolate, Natural Vegan Flavors, Vegetable Glycerine, Brown Rice Syrup, Sea Salt, Yeast Extract, Xanthan Gum, Lactic Acid (Vegan, for flavor), Annatto (for color) Carrageenan, Titanium Dioxide (a naturally occurring mineral), Vegan Enzyme."

And yes, the bastards are still using Palm Fruit Oil, which is heinous not only from the saturated fat content, but social issues (threatening the existence of Oranguatans).

Drs. Caldwell Esselstyn and Ornish have REVERSED heart disease, the number one killer of people in the world, through a NO-added oil plant-based diet.  Dr. Barnard has done the same with Type II Diabetes. Drs. T. Colin Campbell and John McDougall say to avoid added free oils.  The evidence is in.  These fake cheeses merely drain your pockets, foment your taste addiction to fat, are nutritionally useless, and help bring about so many degenerative diseases in your later years.  These nutritional experts all note that "moderation kills."  As does "free oil", Daiya kills.

It might help the animals to not ingest dairy cheese, but you eat this stuff, and you're not helping yourself in the long run. Just because it's "vegan" doesn't mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that it's healthy.

How disappointing, in thinking about it all, that a major Veg magazine was recently so proud to announce that they were awarding someone at random, "A Month's Supply of Daiya Cheese" in celebration of a Facebook "like" threshold. "Hey, here's a month's worth of fat-ladden, nutritionally useless, cheese-like stuff for you to eat and enjoy. Lucky you!"

Maybe this attitude and apparent nutritional ignorance helps explains why, after a year of having the copies I've sent them, they still haven't done a published review of the "1st Vegan Pizza Cookbook." Perhaps their sponsors weren't enthused by the concept of heart healthy pizza made with whole grains, legumes, nuts, seeds, and vegetables."

 

Mad Cowboy Newsletter, Discounts for Holiday Vegan Pizza Cookbook

The latest issue of the Mad Cowboy Newsletter is now available online with a Holiday Discounts for purchased copies (autographed) of the 1st Vegan Pizza Cookbook, "Heart Healthy Pizza." Check out the discounts for 1 to 4 copies of the book at this link.

Here's the Introduction and Table of Contents to this edition:

"In this edition we are proud to announce the winners of last issue's Vegan Mind-Bender Contest and the Heart Healthy Pizza Cookbook Giveaway. There's also a gift-link for readers who want to purchase autographed copies of "Heart Healthy Pizza" at a Special Holiday discount. You'll also find a scathing and detailed rebuke of the "Paleo Diet" by Dr. John McDougall, disturbing historical statistics on soda and food serving sizes, and learn about internal concerns about outside food corporation's influence on Registered Dieticians.

Francis Moore Lappe weighs in with a fine rebuttal on the recent Stanford study that disses organics, Paul Shapiro on why meat consumption in the US is falling, what several vegan nutritional experts think about specific food products, and how a vegan first ran a 100 mile brutal ultramarathon. Further down you'll marvel at a recent Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness that essentially equates humans and animals, how SHARK is using drones to video illegal pigeon shoots, Hurricane Sandy's impact on companion animals, and about the "microflora" inside you. And don't miss our Vegan Digital Media Theater where there's a plethora of interesting media links.

 ... as always, a tip of the hat to our new subscribers: y'all can browse/search through past issues at the Mad Cowboy Newsletter Archives at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mad_Cowboy/

Best regards, Mark MC editor/webmaster

 

Table of Contents:

00: Quote(s) from Howard

01: The Vegan Mind-Bender Contest Winner/Challenge!

02: Heart Healthy Pizza Cookbook Winner & a Special Holiday Discount!

03: Mad Cow Info Round-Up

04: Paleo Diet Cruel, Soda & Food Serving Sizes, Dietician Dilemma

05: 15,000 Weather Records, Reckless Organics Study, Seasonal Food Map

06: Vegan Digital Media Theater

07: Giving Up Meat, Meat Sales Fall, Veg. Nutrition Experts, Run 100 Miles

08: Human=Animals, Animal Rights Drones, Sandy & Pets, Bugs Inside U

09: Quick Bytes

10: Closing Thoughts

 

My 1st Radio Interview is Tonight

Author of the 1st Vegan Pizza Cookbook, "Heart Healthy Pizza," Mark Sutton, speaks w/ Dr. Don Wagner, on Wed., Sept. 26th: 3pm pst/6pm est to 4pm pst/7pm est.

The Dr. Don Show is a health/wellness and plant based nutrition show hosted by Dr. Don Wagner D.O. weekdays 3-4 pm pst/6-7 pm est on KAAA 1230 and KZZZ 1490 AM.  Past Interview Archives:

http://bullheadurgentcare.com/archives/index.html

The interview will be available as a streaming and downloadable MP3 a few days after the event.  Call-in Numbers: (928) 753-1230, (928) 763-1490

Mark's book contains over 100 no-added oil, plant-based recipes for making pizza, For more information about "Heart Healthy Pizza," visit:

http://www.hearthealthypizza.com

Audio Interview Available Online + Photos

The 90 minute interview I had 06/24/12, now available as an archive at:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/daniel-michael/2012/06/24/heart-healthy-pizza 

...there's a media player version (should start automatically), and a downloadable mp3.

Here's a tri-photo collage of the Vegan Pizza I made from my book for the carnivore interviewer (who comments on the pizza during the interview... it didn't last the evening!).

FYI, Mark

©2012 by Mark Sutton (click on to view larger version)

WebMD: "Plant-Based Diet for Heart Health"

Guess more mainstream folks are catching on about a plant-based diet being "heart healthy."

http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/plant-based-diet-for-heart-health

Decent and validating summary of studies pertinent to the topic, although the Med. Diet is often misunderstood.  As Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn has pointed out, it merely slowed down the progression of heart disease in subjects (many still had heart issues later), and doesn't reverse or prevent heart disease as his recommendations have been shown to do.

Athough the article misses the issue of NO ADDED OIL (proven to reverse heart disease), it's still a timely and current article that provides me with additional encouragement to get my book out.  Doing final layout and indexing (have two incredible endorsements I can't publish yet!).  So close...

FYI, Mark

http://www.hearthealthypizza.com

From the article above:

"In an analysis published in 2009 in the American Journal of Cardiology, researchers reviewed 27 studies on the heart benefits of four different types of plant-based diets:

• Vegan
• Lacto-ovo-vegetarian
• Primary plant-based (similar to the lacto-ovo-vegetarian diet, but allows small amounts of lean meat)
• Combination diet -- a traditional vegetarian or vegan diet combined with nuts, soy, and/or fiber

The researchers found that people who ate the combination diet decreased their total cholesterol and LDL "bad" cholesterol by 20% to 35%.

Those who ate the vegan diet had LDL decreases of 15% to 25%. People who ate the lacto-ovo-vegetarian and primary plant-based diets had significantly smaller decreases: 10% to 15%.

The researchers also noted that plant-based diets are associated with:

• Lower levels of triglycerides
• Lower concentrations of inflammatory markers such as C-reactive protein (CRP)
• Lower blood pressure
• Decreased body weight and body mass index (BMI)
• Decreased risk of death from any cause, including heart disease
• Improved insulin sensitivity
• Better blood sugar control in patients with diabetes

The heart benefits of eating more plant foods are well-established by large-scale studies such as the Nurses' Health Study and the male Health Professionals Follow-up Study.

Studies show that people who eat the most fruits and vegetables have a 20% reduced risk of heart disease and a 27% reduced risk of dying from cardiovascular disease, especially stroke.

Further research shows that each 10-gram increase in daily fiber from sources such as whole grains is associated with a 27% decreased risk of dying from heart disease."

 

MC Newsletter: Msg. from Howard, Heart Healthy Pizza, Pink Slime

The Intro and TOC:

"Howdy!  Welcome to the 72nd issue of the Mad Cowboy Newsletter.

Today we've got a special end-of-the-year letter from Howard, and an announcement about the new "Heart Healthy Pizza" cookbook (with a Foreward by Howard).

In this edition of the newsletter, you'll learn about the prolific and knowledgeable Dr. Greger's new website, "NutritionFacts" with superb short videos on scores of topics.  There's also information in this issue about which food companies are spending the most on lobbying Congress, a new report on the state of America's Heart Health, and how a very large study indicates that vegetables and fruits significantly lower your risk of strokes.

Reading further, find out about the world's "toughest woman" (hint: she's vegan), see a video of former President Clinton discussing his vegan diet, find out what vegan Ellen Degeneres is up to, and  the stats in a recent survey by the Vegetarian Resource Group on the number of vegans in the United States.  Monsanto has some serious problems, cows contribute much more to Global Climate Change than previously thought, the movie "Farmageddon" is screened on Capitol Hill, crows have a "danger" tool, and the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act is being legally challenged.

As usual, there's an abundance of new items in the Mad Cow Info Round-Up ("Pink Slime?") and lots to see and hear in the Vegan Digital Media Theater.

... as always, a tip of the hat to our new subscribers:  y'all can browse/search through past issues at the Mad Cowboy Newsletter Archives at:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mad_Cowboy/
Wishing all readers a bountiful, exciting, and rewarding New Year!

Best regards, Mark    MC editor/webmaster
[Note: have posted draft Table of Contents and Recipe Index for "Heart Healthy Pizza" at:

http://www.hearthealthypizza.com

TABLE OF CONTENTS:

• 00: A Special Holiday Message from Howard
• 01: The Vegan Mind-Bender Contest Winner/Challenge!
• 02: Announcing the "Heart Healthy Pizza" Cookbook
• 03: Mad Cow Info Round-Up
• 04: NutritionFacts, Food Lobbying, US Heart Health, Lower Strokes
• 05: Toughest Woman, Vegan Clinton, Ellen's Site, No. of US Vegans
• 06: Vegan Digital Media Theater
• 07: Monsanto Bugged, New Cow Gas Stats, Food/2011, Farmageddon
• 08: Corp./Animal Rights, Swine Case, Crow Tools, AETA Challenged
• 09: Quick Bytes
• 10: Closing Thoughts

Direct Link to the New Issue:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mad_Cowboy/message/95

Re-Post: "Sojourn to Burger King"

Was thinking about upcoming planting & memories of this earlier post came to mind. Posted in 2005, most people following this blog probably haven't read it. One of my favorites, as well as truly intense.  Enjoy!  Mark (Been busy dealing w/ tragedy & work. Hope to announce cookbook's title later this month).

---------

[I wrote this back in May 2002.  The veg'n community was "a buzz" with the arrival of the BK Veggie Burger.  The burger made quite a stir, and invited many debates (among them, is buying one supporting BK's negative impact on society's health and our environment? Eric Marcus of the great "vegan.com" stunned many with his thoughts on the matter).  I hadn't been to a fast food restaurant in years and documented what transpired.]

Oh, gawd... I feel so unclean......

I had to run some errands in Burtonsville, MD, late this morning, and there was this Burger King in the parking lot of the strip mall.  Girding my loins, adjusting my shades, pulling up my pants, I went in.  I tried to swagger a bit, like some of the workmen I saw going in... look tough... you're walking into a store painted in primary colors... could be worse... could be McSlaughter's....

Felt like I was a Dallas fan in a Redskins bar, only I had sunglasses on and no one knew any better.  What do I do? A long line.  Quite the mixture of ethic backgrounds, generally lower middle income.  What sort of demented artist designed this place?  They are so happy selling dead animal products.  Better get in line.

The people behind the counter wear uniforms... are they a para military force of some kind?  The assault on my sense was almost too much.  They spoke some numerical code... "I'll take a Number 4, she wants a Number 5 without onions, I want a super-this and a mega-that"..... very confusing...

I checked out the menu overhead... gaudy and bright.. Yup, the "BK Veggie"  $2.29...  Lord... look at the other products on the menu... my internal calorie counter was going off the scale.  Unbelievable fat-laden and salty food... look at all the dead meat.   I hear Schossler chuckling with a little Twilight Zone music in my head.... look at all the crap they are selling, and buried in that visual abuse is the "BK Veggie" (next month the big promo for all BK's will be Chicken Whoppers, btw).

The lady and kid in front of me were fascinating.  She was clearly his grandmother, and thin as a rail.  The kid must've been around 8 or 9 years old, and rarely have I see any child so obese... he had, literally, three chins.. his ear lobes were the size of my thumbs... it was awful to see what happened next.  She order fried chicken fingers, large order of fries, and a Diet Coke or Pepsi for the boy.  Absolutely amazing.

I placed my order.  "BK Veggie Burger, microwaved."

"Microwaved?" the guy behind the register said, slightly above the yelling of people in the kitchen making and delivering orders (they were very busy.... french fries literally flying around).

"Yup... I'd like it microwaved. You can do that... I checked.  I don't want it cooked on a meat greasy grill."  Was that a mummered rustling from people behind me I heard, or thought I saw peripherally?

He went over to the manager, who was barking orders at the adolescents in the back.  He nodded after a pause, looking at me like I'm an alien.. Hmm, one of "them."  "Okay" was the final pronouncement.

"Here or to go?" the kid asked me.  Hell, I don't know, I thought.... how is this done?

"Ahh... h-here.." I stammered (did the people behind me think I was from a foreign country? I thought to myself).  I paid the blood money.

"Number 61"... guess that's me.  I raised my hand... "You got the veggie burger?" "Yup." "Here!" he dashed to bark out more orders.

The burger was wrapped in Burger King paper and on a plastic brown tray.  Now what?  Are people watching me?  Get a seat, yeah....

Ketchup... sure... grab some packages... napkins... dodge the crowd at the soda fountain.... get seat for good recon (near the kid and his granny).  Try to look nonchalant... cool... with it.... Master of the BK Domain....

Okay.... let's take a bite.... not bad... OUCH! (I don't own a microwave and forgot about the heat...).  It was small, edible, relatively tasteless.... the bun was like eating styrofoam with a slight crust...

"Eat all your chicken fingers before they get cold" the wise Grandma was advising her grandson, as he was shoveling french fries into his gaping maw while grooving on his plastic toy that came with the meal.

I forced more of the burger down.... looking at people around me.... amazed at what they were eating, as though this is civilized and we are the greatest nation in the world.

I'm done... now what?  Jeez... look at the people in the line... at least two-thirds of them are very overweight.  Wonder if there's a connection?

Now what?  Okay... save napkins and ketchup not used.... throw away stuff, advertisement paper place mat trashed, put tray on trashcan.  Unclean... unclean....

I sneaked out the back door.... Ah.... fresh air... sunshine.... it's over.  The cognitive assault had abated.  I was free again... felt like gargling with carrot juice.

Okay, Eric... I bought one outta support for the movement.  Would I do it again?

Only under extraordinary circumstances.  Yes, it's encouraging to some, especially if they promoted it better (at this store it was almost invisible), and Mr. Marcus made good points.  Yes, I would urge every veg'n to buy at least one BK Veggie Burger, even if you throw it away.  I think he's right that it must succeed, or rather, it would be sad if it did not.  Presumably, the other Fat, er, Fast Food chains are watching.

But then, as comparison, at the Giant across the parking lot from the BK, bagels are fifty cents, boca burgers are about a buck apiece when buying a pack of four, tomatoes (or what pass for them), run around 99 cents a pound.  The salad bar is around $2.50 to $3 a pound. Across the street at the incredible Amish market, potato wedges (huge potato) are a buck, handmade burger rolls, six to a pack, about $2.20. Tons of fresh produce, grains, legumes (beans usually $1/lb., millet somewhat less).  The local farmer's markets will open in a few months... fresh local produce.

Limp lettuce, translucent tomato slice, pale mayonnaise, and some carrot flecks in the veg patty.  $2.29 plus tax, lotta paper wasted. Flourescent light and red/yellow color overdose.

Progress?

As luck would have it, packages of vegetable and greens seeds were on sale for 10 cents apiece at the Dollar Store near the BK.  Bought twenty packages (brocolli, mustard greens, lettuce, basil, dill, parsley, etc... most will be micro-greens for me... 30 to 40 gourmet salads for about 5 cents apiece (many many more if I grow them past adolescence), some soil, water, and sunshine).

That's my idea of progress.  This brand of seed is usually six to ten times more in cost.  You can buy organic seeds cheaper in bulk, elsewhere.

The kid was in the Dollar Store, too, his Grandmother buying him candy, among other things.  She was trying so hard to please him and he had her by the pocketbook via her heart.  And in her love for him, his heart was going to have a rough time from the lifestyle being encouraged by her emotions.  How sad!

I shoulda slipped him some seeds..... told him they were magic, and that with love and attention, they would make him strong and healthy, extending his life and enjoyment of same.  He would be able to run faster, jump higher, laugh louder, love longer, and think better.

Of course, that's a fairy tale... and no plastic toys accompanied the seed packets.

 

[Twitter @solveggie]

70th Issue of MadCowboy Newsletter Available

Here's the INTRO, TOC, and a direct link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mad_Cowboy/message/93

----

Howdy!  Welcome to the 70th issue of the Mad Cowboy Newsletter.

In this issue we've a 1 hour video of Howard lecturing in Washington back in January 2010, and some articles/opinions about the recent debate Howard participated in on the topic:  "Can You Be An Environmentalist and Eat Meat?"  There's also some vegan recipes from the world's most prolific vegan cookbook author, Robin Robertson, and her latest achievement:  "Vegan on the Cheap."

Further on down there's our "Mad Cow Info Round-Up," an article on why you might not want to use Agave Syrup, how "school lunches" are a National Security Threat, and a fine essay about the growing "Food Movement."  In honor of VegNew's 10th Anniversary, there's a link to a Mad Cowboy Interivew with the VegNews Editor "way back when," and onward some interesting advice/please from the UN regarding diet and agroecology.  You'll also read about the President's Panel recommendations on Cancer and the Environment, find some fine things (don't miss the Esselstyn/Campbell team-up in "Forks Over Knives") to watch and listen to in the "Vegan Digital Media Theater," learn how PETA is taking on BP, and much more.  And don't miss the return of our "Quick Bytes" resources section!

... as always, a tip of the hat to our new subscribers:  y'all can browse past issues at the Mad Cowboy Newsletter Archives at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mad_Cowboy/

Here's hoping everyone stays cool for the summer and that a bountiful harvest from your home gardens is just now hitting its stride!

***********************************************
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
00: Howard in the Media of Note
01: The Vegan Mind-Bender Contest Winner/Challenge!
02: Recipes from "Vegan on the Cheap" by Robin Robertson
03: Mad Cow Info Round-Up
04: Agave Bad, Lunch Threat, Fatal Junk Food, Food Movement
05: VegNews Interview, 5-Day Clean-out, Vegan Athlete Award
06: UN & Vegan Diet/Agroecology, Dead Zone, POTUS Panel & Cancer
07: Vegan Digital Media Theater
08: PETA vs. BP,  Unappetising McTruth, Disturbing Dairy
09: Quick Bytes
10: Closing Thoughts

Is "Fat Free Vegan" a Religion?

There was a recent post on the Fat Free Vegan List where someone felt they were being a "heretic" for posting about the "health" benefits of coconut oil (which is myopic, more on this shortly).  This got me to thinking about how some might perceive those of us believing in a no-added fat vegan diet as being akin to dietary fundamentalists.

In formulating a response to the poster, I decided it was best to make it a blog post, for general consumption and that it wasn't really "on topic" for the List.  I've expanded my response to cover a bit more conceputal turf than just the List:

"Someone posted feeling that they were a heretic for what they posted, wondered if "fat free" is a religion, and wouldn't post any more. 

First of all, this is a Group List.  Mistakes can be made, I've made my own share, we move on, we post again.  However, know that advocating hamburger on a vegetarian list would be as bad as praising oil on a fat free vegan list.  There is a "charter" and we join with the tacit understanding that we agree to the bylaws.

As to the issue of fat free being a religion, it's an intriguing thought to me.  In my mind, being religious requires faith, and generally, faith in the unknown to some degree (unless one has had some sort of transcendent experience that "mandates" a religious perspective and/or viewpoint).  Still, not provable, at least from a quantitative or empirical standpoint.  Some akin "vegan" to a religion and/or philosophy.

IMHO, "Fat Free" requires faith to some degree, but more importantly, it also incorporates 20+ years of solid peer-reviewed scientific research, actually physical measurements of the effect of ingested added fat, and a sound understanding of the mechanism by which said added fat can cause harm to the human body in so many ways.  Furthermore, added oil is nothing but, to quote Rip Esselstyn, processed goop.  That's an inescapable reality.  Oil is a highly processed food-like product, but it is NOT real food.  Go ahead.  Tell me how you can "grow oil" or "harvest oil."

The "fat free vegan approach" is much more "provable" than a religion, imho.  And just as with a religion, you can "try it" and see how it works for you.  For many of us, fat free has been a boon, a revelation, invigorating, a release, and/or quite healthy.  Does one size fit all?  Ask someone wiser than me, I don't know.

Anyway, we may sound like religious zealots, and I can only speak for myself here, but in fighting a world that insists that "added oil is good" we get weary sometimes, and often have to remind ourselves that we've science, tested results, and the reversal of heart disease and diabetes (that no one but Essy, Ornstein, and Barnard have accomplished) to validate our perspective.  If you know someone who can walk on water, they are probably worth paying attention to, at least until you meet someone else who can do the same (or tells you where the low-lying rocks are in the pond).

We get tired of having to defend our views.  Our hard fought understanding that added fat is harmful and that oil is NOT real food is often met with scorn, derision, and disdain.  You can tell someone that one high fat meal decreases circulatory elasticity for several hours (that's a measurement, not theory), and over time, will take it's toll as heart disease, diabetes, cancer, Altzheimer's disease, and other serious degenerative conditions, and they will still whine about needing Daiya "cheese" (very high fat processed oil, mostly) or "extra virgin olive oil."  EVOO=EVIL.  Often, just as with carnivores attacking vegetarians or vegans, they will throw out very similar insults and ill-thought out justifications for why you are wrong.  As though it was important that you be shown to be wrong.

Vegetarians and Vegans being scornful of low-fat vegans.  On the surface, it's silly, but in reality, it's that even Veg'ns are susceptable to the addictive qualities of fat, sugar, and salt.  As such, often the List has been a sanctuary of sorts, a support group and a rare place to share a minority view and recipes with others who are also struggling or who have successfully incorporated this new dietary perspective into their lives.  I mean, if there are 1 million vegans in the US (latest stats), how many are low-fat oriented?  We are a minority in a minority that will, most likely, live longer than the majority.

No-added fat is not a religion, but a reasoned approach to health.  Forgive us if we sometimes lash out at those who suggest otherwise.  In many ways, going vegetarian or vegan is/was actually easier than going no-fat.  I get more flack for no-fat than I have for vegan the past decade, although admittedly, when I went veg decades ago, it was truly radical.

We do what we think best, ideally.  But remember... asking 'why' on a fat free List is different than posting "health" information about fat or recipes with fat on a "fat free" List.

We see enough of those bogus health claims as it is.  They might be healthy on some myopic micro-managed selective subset of biological interactions, but, imho, avoiding heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and Altzheimer's trumps them all.  Being firm and resolved to embrace a no-added fat vegan diet should not be confused with religion or groundless faith.  It is the acknowledgement of the research, science, and demonstrated results, that we choose to take advantage of and incorporate into our lives.

Our decision, not yours.  We're fine with it.

Regards, Mark"

Addendum:  Comments Off is a default (thank you Typepad) and I didn't notice it.  It's been enabled.